‘Hacks’ takes a peek behind the curtain of a changing comedy world

What does it mean to be a comedian, and is it possible for a comedian to age without becoming one? That’s one of the central questions Paul W. Downs and co-creators Lucia Aniello and Jen Statsky explore in the HBO Max comedy series Tips.

The Emmy Award-winning series, which recently wrapped its third season, was conceived during a road trip in 2015. Downs and his co-creators were traveling to Portland, Maine, when they began discussing the idea of ​​contemporary “cool comedy,” as opposed to humor that younger comedians might consider “corny.”

“We started talking about this phenomenon and we were like, ‘Oh, you know, what would be a cool show is a show about a comedy icon who is misunderstood by younger generations,’” Downs says. “So we just emailed each other the idea for the show and talked about it for four or five years before we finally pitched it.”

The series focuses on Deborah Vance (played by Jean Smart), a veteran comedian whose career is in decline. In response, Deborah’s manager (played by Downs) enlists a Gen Z comedian named Ava (Hannah Einbinder) to help her get back on her feet. Tips explores themes of sexism in comedy and the nuances of “cancel culture” — like when some of Deborah’s old offensive jokes resurface.

“It’s a comedy, but we also want to make a show that makes people think,” Downs says. “Because if we have this platform, it’s like, why not make something that makes you think about something and reframe something that you’ve thought about in the past?”

For the Downs, Tips is a family business; he is married to his co-creator Aniello, who gave birth to their first child while he was acting and she was directing the season 2 finale.

“In that particular scene, I had to be nervous. And then, guess what? I had a lot to fall back on,” he says. “We always say that, now, Tips is our firstborn, and our son is our second.

Excerpts from the interview

On what Deborah and Ava have in common

I think they both turn to comedy for the same reasons that a lot of other comedians do: because there was something in their life that was painful and they needed to laugh about it, or because for some of them, they feel isolated or different or “apart,” and it’s a way to connect with people or it’s sometimes a way to protect themselves, to make other people laugh. So I think there are a lot of reasons why people turn to comedy. But for both of them, they definitely use comedy in the same way, which is that it’s a defense. It’s an armor for them.

For someone like Ava, who grew up alone, it was a way to feel connected to other people and make sense of the world and the things that she was observing. So that’s certainly the bond that unites them. That’s what makes them very close. I think there are people who are just giddy and funny. Others are naturally very funny. But I think there’s definitely some truth in the richness of the material that comes from a place of pain and difficulty.

On the question of whether or not there are limits that should not be crossed in comedy

In the pilot episode, (Deborah) says, “There’s no limit. You can make a joke about anything if it’s funny.” … And I think the most important point is that you can make a joke about anything if it’s funny and it doesn’t hurt. … I think the problem is that when you hit, it’s lazy. It’s not as funny.

Meeting his collaborators Lucia Aniello (who later became his wife) and Jen Statsky to the Brigade of Upright Citizens

We made each other laugh. I think that was the thing. We just shared a sense of humor. There were two things. One, I found Jen and Lucia really funny, and two, I found myself even funnier because I wanted to make them laugh. I think when you respect someone’s brain and sense of humor, making them laugh is kind of the ultimate. It’s such a nice feeling. … I think we bonded because we shared a sense of humor, which is often tied to a way of seeing the world and a sense of values ​​as well.

Why They Throw Jokes and Ideas in Email Threads

We’ll email a joke to the three of us, and then it’s very easy to look up. It’s usually when we’re not working that the muse comes to us and we have an idea. Something comes to us and we write it down. … We’re on vacation. We’re at a restaurant. … So it’s kind of a way to file the work and then come back to the fun, to be able to file the work and revisit it when you’re in the writers’ room. But yeah, we do it. We’ve been doing it for a very long time. We still do it.

On Tips mocking the fact that Hollywood only wants existing intellectual properties, like a Gumby movie or Operation

I think it’s really hard to sell original ideas. There’s a real crisis in comedy sales right now. … I think there’s less of an appetite to take risks with original voices and stories. Even when we launched (Tips), we thought, “Well, a show about two women in comedy, one of whom is on the decline in her career. Will people want to see that?” And thank goodness they did. … Unless it’s a given, I think there’s a lot less risk now. … People are afraid of doing something that doesn’t work.

On Tips Let’s look at how late night shows have changed

It’s very interesting for us to explore the changes that show business has gone through or is going through because it’s obviously a character study of two people. We’ve always said it’s a look behind the scenes and their lives off stage. But it’s also a study of entertainment and comedy. It’s really a show about comedy. And so, late night, especially for comedians who are making their first appearance on a late night show, whether it’s doing stand-up on a late night show or being interviewed and showing a little bit of their own sense of humor on a late night show, it’s always a very important marker in your career, I think, especially for comedians. But… it doesn’t necessarily have the same meaning or the same impact that it did when Carson was on.

Therese Madden and Susan Nyakundi produced and edited this interview for broadcast. Bridget Bentz, Molly Seavy-Nesper and Clare Lombardo adapted it for the web.