In Yorgos Lanthimos’ new film “Kinds of Kindness,” a character played by Emma Stone recounts a dream in which she was the inhabitant of a bizarre world. “There, the dogs were in charge,” she whispers. “People were animals, animals were people. But being kept in line by their canine masters wasn’t as bad as it seemed, she said: “I have to admit, they treated us pretty well.” »
Compared to the way humans treat each other in “Kinds of Kindness,” a new dark comedy that just premiered at the Cannes Film Festival and hits theaters June 21, dogs would surely be an improvement.
Comprised of three separate stories with recurring cast members in different roles, “Kinds of Kindness” begins with the story of Robert (Jesse Plemons), a corporate NCO whose every interaction in life – including what to eat, how to talk to or even who to marry – is controlled by a boss (Willem Dafoe) whose decisions send poor Robert into a tailspin. The second story follows Daniel (Plemons again), who becomes convinced that his wife (Stone) is not who she says she is and persuades her to perform insane tasks to prove herself.
And in the third sequence, the cult members played by Stone and Plemons search for a woman capable of waking the dead, although the whims of their guru (Dafoe) dictate that this mysterious woman also be a certain height and weight and have an identical twin. (Even when it comes to awesome supernatural powers, there are obstacles.)
Saturday afternoon, in a hotel in Cannes, I met Stone, Plemons and Dafoe to try to make sense of this triptych. According to the actors, Lanthimos doesn’t want to say too much. “Yorgos says he likes it when people have different visions of the film,” Dafoe said. “I think that’s his strength.”
And as we discussed the film and other Lanthimos projects like “The Poor Things” and “The Favorite,” it became clear that to enter the director’s unusual worlds, the actors also had to leave behind their preconceived notions of meaning.
Here are edited excerpts from our conversation.
A first time in Cannes can be pretty crazy. How did you feel releasing “Kinds of Kindness” here?
PIERRE EMMA Intense. It’s beautiful and amazing and larger than life, but I felt like I was having an out-of-body experience the whole time.
JESSE PLEMONS People are screaming your name like it’s a horror movie.
ROCK Rrrrahhh! And when you’re in a dissociative state, it’s truly a horror film. But it was incredible.
Emma and Willem, you have already worked with Yorgos. How was Jesse’s welcome into the troop?
PLEMONS (to Dafoe) I think you rode me once. It was a very good welcome.
WILLEM DAFOE These two are at the center of it all, and it’s really about me coming to them. So there is no feeling of welcome. I’m the guest!
PLEMONS You said something very helpful at the beginning when I was trying not to get carried away: “Just focus on the dynamics between the characters.”
Jesse, you said Yorgos wasn’t willing to discuss much about the storyline or these characters. So how do you find your place in the world?
PLEMONS It’s not a comfortable place to be, especially at first. Everything tells you: “No, I have to find a category, a box, I have to make sense of it all. “And then you spend time with people who have already done this with Yorgos, and slowly a certain atmosphere starts to take over and you loosen your grip a little and you give in to it. It becomes a fun exploration.
DAFOE Characters are revealed through actions. You don’t decide who the character is and SO experience it, because then you block all kinds of impulses. But that said, we have a beautiful text. Especially in the first and second sequences, the writing is simply magnificent.
ROCK What’s wrong with the third?
DAFOE There’s more history there! No, the third one is cool.
ROCK “The third one is cute.” I’m making fun of you.
But maybe there’s something appealing about not knowing all the answers. Part of the fun of “Kinds of Kindness” is coming up with your own thematic thread for these stories.
DAFOE It’s a living thing that isn’t defined, and people will arrive at it with their own experiences. When the public has to make sense of it, there is interest. They make the film with you, and that’s the power of cinema. You are enriched by the experience and it is not a passive thing.
One thing Yorgos said today is that his interest in the first story was sparked by “Caligula.” I thought, “This is so interesting. Why didn’t you tell me before? But then I thought, if he had, it really wouldn’t have meant anything to me. It’s only now, after the fact…
ROCK …that you are crazy.
PLEMONS I asked him early on what the origin of this idea was, because I’m always fascinated to know. So he told me that about “Caligula,” and then I read it, and it didn’t do anything for me. (Laughs.) But it’s interesting!
ROCK “A nice story! »
Emma, Yorgos said that your continued collaboration allows you to go further each time. Where do you think you are going furthest?
ROCK Hopefully a sense of honesty will deepen. Having that level of confidence not only in him as a director and as a person, but also in his storytelling and the way he approaches these things, it allows us to go deeper and deeper into a deeper exploration of what it means to be human.
In the first story, Willem’s character is reminiscent of a director in the way he tells people what to do. As actors, do you want a director who takes such a big part in shaping your performance, or a director who leaves you to your own devices?
ROCK The dream is the combination of the two. You want to have a firm hand in knowing what they’re trying to execute and whether it’s right or wrong, not “I don’t know.” But then you want to have the free will to create the performance and make it your own.
DAFOE All great artists generally have discipline and a strong hand. You find freedom in this structure. I like a director who says, “I see this,” and then you inhabit it. Yorgos understands the beauty of commitment. He believes in the wisdom and expressiveness of the body, and so do I. When he throws this at you, it may seem dictatorial or like a restriction, but it is a great freedom because it is the action that is the liberation.
Emma and Willem, did you expect “Poor Things” to connect to this extent?
ROCK No no.
Emma, you seemed shocked when you won the Best Actress Oscar for this.
ROCK I still don’t know what it was. They were hello bananas.
So what reason did you find for the film to strike such a chord with people?
DAFOE (points to Stone)
ROCK What?
DAFOE Nothing my dear.
ROCK When you’re going through this experience and you’re creating this thing, it’s really hard to think about the ultimate answer. My least favorite question of all time – and I understand why people ask it – is: “What do you want the audience to take away from this?” I always say, “I don’t know, whatever they feel!” » This is how I approach the films that I have had the chance to make: “What I remove it? If it sounds interesting to me, maybe other people will be interested.
I had no idea what people were going to think of “Poor Things,” God is honest. At the end of each day we were in the film lab and Yorgos was looking at dailies and I was saying, “What were you thinking about today?” And he said, “It’s a disaster.” “So it was surreal, and likewise, I don’t know how they will react to this one. I remember seeing “The Favorite” early on in a screening room and thinking, “This is great, but I wonder if anyone will go see this movie.” There are so many fisheyes! »
Perhaps that’s why Yorgos’ films are so popular: everyone who watches them thinks it’s just for them.
ROCK Because it’s just for him. With all the best storytellers, whether they’re authors or directors or painters, you can sense when they’re doing it for them because it’s something they need to express, or when they do it for commercial success and for other people to respond to it. . He makes films because he is interested in them and maybe it will resonate. I think the more personal something is, the more universal it becomes.
PLEMONS I completely agree with this. For me, it’s always a shock when a movie finally comes out, even if that’s how it works. Obviously a movie you’re in has to end up being successful or they won’t ask you back, but what I get out of it is do it.
ROCK You know that expression “Interested people are interesting”? It’s like this: the more personally interested you are as an actor, I think it makes things more interesting. This idea of “one for me, one for them”, I don’t believe in this model at all.
PLEMONS Me neither.
ROCK I don’t think it resonates the same way. I mean, I understand if you need to do it, but if you’re lucky enough not to have to, I hope you do what interests you, and that makes it interesting for other people.
DAFOE One of the beautiful things about creating something and playing the game is that you can really let things go and have these moments of release. This is all pretend, it has nothing to do with the real consequences. If you’re very concerned about the outcome of what you’re doing, that’s a huge consequence and takes the joy, inventiveness, and soul out of something.
ROCK Same scene by scene! If it’s “I want to perform this on stage today,” that’s a recipe for disaster.
DAFOE Look, you want people to like it. You want it to be a big success and everyone to be happy, but it’s really important to not even think about where things are going. That’s probably why I can’t be a director. I look at the director and say, “It’s her problem!” (Laughs)